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  • Thanks Heroes! - Coming Down the Pipe

    Hello Players!

    First, we’d like to apologize for not being able to keep the promise of posting by Tuesday night (9/20).
    Due to workload from the patch last night, we were pushed beyond the proposed time frame, and in the end, unable to get the post up prior to the web servers coming down.

    We’ve been mulling hard over your comments, reports feedback, and general responses. With few exceptions, it is apparent that a lot of time and dedication has been devoted to the feedback provided; both on the forums, in tickets, and of course, through all requested/appropriate channels.
    Based on what’s been supplied, we’d like to focus on the following concerns: RNG, Grind, Pace of the Game (Mana, cooldown restriction, slowdown/delay mechanics triggered by skills), communication with the community, and UI. Beyond reported bugs and functionality issues, these will be the starting game mechanics and playability points that we’re going to be engaging head on.

    As we progress through each, individual issue, we’ll be communicating with you all. However, we’re going to ask you guys and girls to be patient with us. We fully understand and appreciate the fact that many of you have endured and stuck it out with us through it all.
    From changes, updates ,content and more... there's a lot of really exciting stuff coming down the pipe.

    We are not able to give you a definitive date on when these issues will be fixed, and we can’t make those kinds of guarantees in advance, but every team we have is engaged in talks and taking action as we speak on these very topics. An in-depth update will be provided as we work through it all.

    For a grins and giggles sneak-peek: October 5th, will be bringing with it an Attendance Event revamp.
    The Attendance Event will now award you guys and girls with tokens that can be used to purchase a variety of items of your choosing. (There’s even a new Sidekick!)

    Again, we sincerely apologize for not being able to get this post up within the promised timeframe. We will definitely keep you all posted regularly about upcoming changes, internal feedback and other types of info regarding all things HeroWarz.

    Stay tuned! You're going to see and hear a lot more from us.

    - Elijah

  • #2
    I think there would be 2 - 3 times less fuss about everything if this game was still in cbt.

    No 'live' game should be crippled like this in so many ways (little to no content, slow-paced, extremely restrictive gameplay for an Arpg, etc.). The fact that the gameplay-wise, this game is very unique and all, does not save it / compensate for all the negatives.

    It is unlikely, but i am hoping my passion for this game comes back sometime.

    Edit: Fingers crossed that the game will stand back up. That sneak-peek though! Keep the community hyped;^)
    Last edited by seph; 09-21-2016, 04:15 AM.

    Comment


    • #3
      You tend to relay a very characteristic level of gravitas when iterating your brand of idiom en masse Seph, but your intentions and perspective are appreciated... Truly.

      Though not necessarily the place to go into detail, the CBT phases played very specific roles in the launching of HeroWarz, and though I refuse to use this as an excuse, I'm sure you're aware that MMORPGs are constantly changing, being revamped, evolving and the like; the ARPG being a very special platform in and of itself.

      HeroWarz may not be perfect (we'll own that outright), but it's definitely not crippled. The points you've brought up are being addressed as we speak, and specifically, the rate at which content will be introduced will change, in a big way.
      I wish I could go into detail, but I'll wait for the upcoming content to speak for itself.

      We hope you and our other dedicated Players rekindle the passion you had or keep on keeping on.
      We'll do our best to keep the updates on point, the content coming quicker and loop everybody in on a constant and consistent basis.

      - Elijah

      Comment


      • #4
        Good morning Elijah,

        As there is a new sidekick making its way into the game, I would like to raise the topic of Labyrinth sidekicks. To be specific, the sidekicks I am referring to as Labyrinth sidekicks consist of the following:

        - Aki
        - Akira Sudo
        - Camilla
        - Hatred
        - Malice
        - Maximus
        - Super Uni Man
        - Wilson Fey

        These sidekicks are phantoms; they are said to be obtainable, but players only ever end up seeing them in the missed card selection. As far as I am aware, they have not yet been obtained by any player whatsoever. I believe that this is a problem; they should be obtainable within a reasonable amount of time. My personal recommendation is to put their contracts in Heimdal's store for 200 pantheon gemstones each, as this will make pantheon gemstones more purposeful. This would also eliminate the need to readjust the drop rates, a process that may take a significant amount of time due to its mathematical nature.

        Furthermore, I would like to address Benny Foster and Vice. As of this point in time, both of these sidekicks are priced at 17,500,000 pennies a piece. Speaking with the people who own these sidekicks and analyzing their abilities has led me to the conclusion that they are not worth their price tags in any way whatsoever; I vouch for them to be halved, as the sidekicks themselves tend to be less useful than the sidekicks players can obtain from Liberation.

        I appreciate that you are attempting to communicate with us to a greater extent. I wholeheartedly hope that these efforts will extend into the future, and that HeroWarz will not only thrive, but grow. I will personally be continuing to provide feedback if I see additional issues crop up.

        On that note, I would like to suggest adding viability as one of your focal points. The female cast in its entirety is far too weak at the moment. I personally don't believe in perfect balance; it's impossible. However, I would like to stress that these characters are simply too weak, and need immense changes. That said, numerical changes should be sufficient, and, even if it does serve as a focal point, it could be resolved fairly quickly.

        Best of luck,

        Lacrima
        Last edited by Lacrima; 09-21-2016, 05:10 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Are you guys going to be working on skill mods?

          Comment


          • #6
            Good morning to you too Lacrima,

            I like what's being brought up here, and based on the perceived scope of the drop rate you've mentioned, that's one hell of a point to make.
            This will be discussed with the team. If we can take a good, hard look at the numbers overall (or even if they make sense... in part), the aforementioned fix/suggestion makes sense. This has been noted, and it's going on the list. We feel that our end-game Players need to be rewarded with a level of return-on-investment that make the proverbial grind worth it.
            Again, it just makes sense.
            Granted, balancing intended design, game direction and reward is tricky under any circumstance, but it shouldn't be rocket surgery.
            ~ Thanks

            (Apologies in advance to all who may post after - The early birds have my attention. So, if I get buried in posts, please know that I'm reading and noting them all, but I may not be able to respond.)

            - Elijah

            Comment


            • Lacrima
              Lacrima commented
              Editing a comment
              Thank you. When you are addressing the drop rates, please keep in mind that players also need to rely on luck to enter a specific map in the first place. There are thirteen maps, and the player is randomly granted access to one of these maps. The map also changes upon completion, so it is very unlikely that the player will be able to grind a specific map to any significant extent. To make matters worse, more than half of these maps do not drop sidekicks at all.

            • Elijah
              Elijah commented
              Editing a comment
              Absolutely! Thanks for the addendum.

          • #7
            Originally posted by BlueLulu View Post
            Are you guys going to be working on skill mods?
            Skill Mods are on the list, Blue.

            EDIT:
            Before it comes up (and I know it will) - We will have to prioritize fixes, revamps, redesigns and such.
            Some Players may feel that certain issues are critical while others may that they're not. A hard fact that needs to be brought up is that our teams will look at the game, take feedback and make changes; that's the good part. What can be seen as a not-so-good part is that not everybody may agree with everything being posted... including those teams who specifically design and balance.

            However, we'll look at everything brought to our attention, and relay the constructive feedback to all respective teams with the same level of attention and urgency.

            - Elijah

            Comment


            • #8
              Do you plan on creating a dev log of sorts, we want to know what you're working on and where it stands ATM, does not have to have concrete dates but previews to prove that you guys are actually working on what you say you are. Or at least reasoning as to why it's taking longer,what issues are happening, what is planned for the next few months etc. I hope the game flourishes but right now all the hope is hanging by a string.

              Comment


              • Elijah
                Elijah commented
                Editing a comment
                Hi Marvis. We have plans of a Dev Journal.
                I have to admit, personally, I'm a big fan of show vs. tell. However, I'm also a fan of opening lines of communication and providing a holistic and transparent means of keeping Players informed. I'm glad you're maintaining a note regarding the acceptance of news and progress without concrete dates and being open to the rigors of the 'dev cycle'. Once we have a formal template worked out, we'll post with regular frequency.

            • #9
              I would like to make a call to the character balance team, i understand balancing the characters isnt a easy task whit such a big number of options. But what i feel is the focus in one setup and balancing the character around it, Is leading to some very broken and unbalanced setups while leting the rest of builds as subpar in the dust.

              It is even worse when the builds are gated be rng, even knowing them cant build them. Is abit frustrating but im sure you will find the way. Cheers.

              Comment


              • #10
                Originally posted by Elijah View Post
                We’ve been mulling hard over your comments, reports feedback, and general responses. With few exceptions, it is apparent that a lot of time and dedication has been devoted to the feedback provided; both on the forums, in tickets, and of course, through all requested/appropriate channels.
                Based on what’s been supplied, we’d like to focus on the following concerns: RNG, Grind, Pace of the Game (Mana, cooldown restriction, slowdown/delay mechanics triggered by skills), communication with the community, and UI. Beyond reported bugs and functionality issues, these will be the starting game mechanics and playability points that we’re going to be engaging head on.

                As we progress through each, individual issue, we’ll be communicating with you all. However, we’re going to ask you guys and girls to be patient with us. We fully understand and appreciate the fact that many of you have endured and stuck it out with us through it all.
                From changes, updates ,content and more... there's a lot of really exciting stuff coming down the pipe.

                We are not able to give you a definitive date on when these issues will be fixed, and we can’t make those kinds of guarantees in advance, but every team we have is engaged in talks and taking action as we speak on these very topics. An in-depth update will be provided as we work through it all.
                Everytime you update the game, it will be the same, because you don´t negotiate with us the changes and the direction of the game, you only do what you think is better for us, as I told you before, the problem is not with you GM´s, the problem is with the folk(s) who decide the direction of the game,

                My comments may sound harsh and rude, because it´s very sad to see a game with potential being wasted by KoG/A-Storm, and it´s worse when you see how the folk(s) who lead the ship don´t know how to manage a game in a proper way.

                I don´t need to be a clairvoyant in order to know what will happen in the following month(s) if you continue falling in the same mistakes, if you really want us to be more patient, start now by telling us the changes coming next update, and negotiate with us if those changes are the correct way to go.

                Comment


                • #11
                  Originally posted by FateStayNigth View Post
                  I would like to make a call to the character balance team, i understand balancing the characters isnt a easy task whit such a big number of options. But what i feel is the focus in one setup and balancing the character around it, Is leading to some very broken and unbalanced setups while leting the rest of builds as subpar in the dust.

                  It is even worse when the builds are gated be rng, even knowing them cant build them. Is abit frustrating but im sure you will find the way. Cheers.
                  Hi FateStay,

                  This is something that hits close to home. The absolutely epic overhaul of HeroWarz vs. the previous iteration of the game was a venerable double-edged sword.
                  It opened a huge door, presenting a copious cornucopia of customizable character options, but in the same vein, presented the team with both finite and indefinite balance perspectives, which need to be taken into consideration with every. single. adjustment.
                  With many MMOs, the original/home/legacy version of a game gets thoroughly flogged and stress tested in its home country prior to heading out west. However, with HeroWarz, this is the proving ground for all content, adjustments and how it's executed. It's a major reason why the feedback you guys and girls provide is so appreciated. We're committed to working out the kinks, both in how we gather and use the feedback effectively. It's a work in progress, and we know this.

                  - Elijah

                  Comment


                  • #12
                    Originally posted by Anger View Post

                    Everytime you update the game, it will be the same, because you don´t negotiate with us the changes and the direction of the game, you only do what you think is better for us, as I told you before, the problem is not with you GM´s, the problem is with the folk(s) who decide the direction of the game,

                    My comments may sound harsh and rude, because it´s very sad to see a game with potential being wasted by KoG/A-Storm, and it´s worse when you see how the folk(s) who lead the ship don´t know how to manage a game in a proper way.

                    I don´t need to be a clairvoyant in order to know what will happen in the following month(s) if you continue falling in the same mistakes, if you really want us to be more patient, start now by telling us the changes coming next update, and negotiate with us if those changes are the correct way to go.
                    Hi Anger,

                    First and foremost, I'd like to thank you for your post and the mention that HeroWarz has potential. However, I want to alleviate the false association of terms (misnomers) and misappropriation of player feedback apotheosis.

                    The title 'GM' is used by every member of every team when using an in-game avatar. Everyone from the CEO(s), to Dev(s), to Customer Service Reps, to Community Management, to QA, to Interns (it isn't that bad, but hey) all use the moniker GM. So, when players use the term 'GMs' as a sweeping, blanket statement, it almost immediately invalidates the statement made. The term can't be used loosely because one GM may not even work in the same department as another GM. However, if a member of our team is in-game in an official, non-lurking capacity, they're a GM.

                    KOG has been making games for well over 15 years, and those that helm of A.Storm have been at this game-making gig for just as long. Regardless of the intention, not everything done by either company will win over every Player out there, and we would never assume that to be the case. I've been a member of the team and/or worked with these teams for the majority of the time mentioned, and I can assure you that finding a Dev team that has given so much weight to the feedback that the players have offered here is truly difficult to come by. but, I'll be the first to admit that we could have been better in communicating the fact(s).

                    As mentioned in a previous response to a post on this thread, we're refining both how we gather and apply player feedback; balancing both to achieve the best possible outcome.
                    But what I don't want to do is elude to the fact that Players 'at large or in part' would be given a right of approval prior to a game change being made. As gamers ourselves, we fully understand why that would sound really appealing to our Players, but if I were to put it in a comparable, fantasy perspective, it'd be like if George R.R. Martin started channeling the American Idol vote casting or choose-your-own-adventure segments in the Song of Ice and Fire. It's an extreme example, but I hope you understand what I'm getting at. We need to lock it down.

                    Even internally, there are things that some of us may not agree on; it wouldn't be the first or last time, but it makes for a strong debate, and hearing from all of the teams together, it's puts a number of things we may not have thought about individually into perspective. Then, we hope to come to a reasonable conclusion, or be made well aware of the circumstances for or against any change.

                    You're right though. If HeroWarz were to stay on the exact path that it's currently treading, there would be issues. The good news is... that isn't the case.
                    We'll definitely keep you guys and girls posted as to what we'll have coming down the pipe.

                    On a side note: If you have to preface a post with "My comments may sound harsh and rude", I can assure you that regardless of the depth, sincerity and value the following content of that post may have, being rude will knock the wind out those sails in an instant.

                    -Elijah

                    Comment


                    • #13
                      Originally posted by Elijah View Post

                      Hi Anger,

                      First and foremost, I'd like to thank you for your post and the mention that HeroWarz has potential. However, I want to alleviate the false association of terms (misnomers) and misappropriation of player feedback apotheosis.

                      The title 'GM' is used by every member of every team when using an in-game avatar. Everyone from the CEO(s), to Dev(s), to Customer Service Reps, to Community Management, to QA, to Interns (it isn't that bad, but hey) all use the moniker GM. So, when players use the term 'GMs' as a sweeping, blanket statement, it almost immediately invalidates the statement made. The term can't be used loosely because one GM may not even work in the same department as another GM. However, if a member of our team is in-game in an official, non-lurking capacity, they're a GM.

                      Thanks for the clarification, I´ll use better terms next time.

                      KOG has been making games for well over 15 years, and those that helm of A.Storm have been at this game-making gig for just as long. Regardless of the intention, not everything done by either company will win over every Player out there, and we would never assume that to be the case. I've been a member of the team and/or worked with these teams for the majority of the time mentioned, and I can assure you that finding a Dev team that has given so much weight to the feedback that the players have offered here is truly difficult to come by. but, I'll be the first to admit that we could have been better in communicating the fact(s).

                      As mentioned in a previous response to a post on this thread, we're refining both how we gather and apply player feedback; balancing both to achieve the best possible outcome.
                      But what I don't want to do is elude to the fact that Players 'at large or in part' would be given a right of approval prior to a game change being made. As gamers ourselves, we fully understand why that would sound really appealing to our Players, but if I were to put it in a comparable, fantasy perspective, it'd be like if George R.R. Martin started channeling the American Idol vote casting or choose-your-own-adventure segments in the Song of Ice and Fire. It's an extreme example, but I hope you understand what I'm getting at. We need to lock it down.

                      Even internally, there are things that some of us may not agree on; it wouldn't be the first or last time, but it makes for a strong debate, and hearing from all of the teams together, it's puts a number of things we may not have thought about individually into perspective. Then, we hope to come to a reasonable conclusion, or be made well aware of the circumstances for or against any change.

                      I get your point, and I agree about not negotiating minor details, it could be vague and a waste of time for you and we, however, what I´m talking about is that you need to allow us to negotiate with you about which big content/balance patches come in every update, in that way, we could reach the server goals faster and better.

                      Let me use some examples:

                      - Perception vs reality, you may have a serious testing process, but we, as players, don´t see that, because character balance has been very vague and slow, right now, male characters are superior by far than female characters, and many folks like to play female toons.
                      - We as players, don´t see a serious marketing strategy because the Venus Shop is expensive and it´s not varied, you can try to test the market by:
                      ----a) Interact with players and ask us our needs in terms of fashion, consumables, VIP, etc.
                      ----b) Put the previous Venus costumes in the fashion shop, 3k K-Ching per piece, put them for 7-15 days and watch the results.
                      - To prove your good intentions, let us choose the next character we get, you can exclude Izanami, because all we know she is one of your strongest card in terms of content.
                      - Talk with us about the big changes to the game, tell us your plans about how do you think you can alleviate the RNG/Balance/Pace Speed and discuss the plan with us, after all, we are the ones playing the game.
                      - Let us test the content before it gets out.
                      - Create a council made of veteran and experienced players, and open a hidden sub-forum only available for those players, in that way, you can discuss that kind of changes with us, I´m sure, we will have a serious, constructive and faster feedback process if you do it.


                      You're right though. If HeroWarz were to stay on the exact path that it's currently treading, there would be issues. The good news is... that isn't the case.
                      We'll definitely keep you guys and girls posted as to what we'll have coming down the pipe.

                      We are on the same boat, because we as a community, don´t want to see how a good game dies.

                      On a side note: If you have to preface a post with "My comments may sound harsh and rude", I can assure you that regardless of the depth, sincerity and value the following content of that post may have, being rude will knock the wind out those sails in an instant.

                      If you can change, I can do it too.

                      -Elijah
                      Thanks for the answer, I used your post to respond in bold letters.

                      Comment


                      • Lacrima
                        Lacrima commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Those are pretty decent basic requirements, but it's missing idiot proofing. I hate to be that guy and say it, but some of the individuals that satisfy that criteria are not exactly suitable for the position. Many individuals are too biased, and, despite playing the game extensively, cannot form cohesive, logical suggestions. Other individuals are not flexible enough. I refuse to call out any individual in particular, but feel free to PM me if you want an example. In my opinion, there needs to be some sort of idiot-proof criteria, but I cannot think of any at the moment.

                        Furthermore, 3-5 individuals may not be able to encompass all the characters with enough depth.
                        Last edited by Lacrima; 09-21-2016, 03:04 PM.

                      • FateStayNigth
                        FateStayNigth commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I dont know if im the ilogical or the not flexible but should tell you, that even if invited to that "council" i will refuse, helping is a hobby for me, not a job. If i feel like helping the Devs or making drama whit players, i will do, because im here to have fun afterall. No offense intended.

                      • Lacrima
                        Lacrima commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Fate, I believe every player shares the same sentiment; we are all here to have fun. I am simply playing the devil's advocate so we can get as much out of the discussion as possible due to the fact that I am somewhat critical of this idea.

                    • #14
                      I still consider myself relatively knew, at least compared to the veteran forumgoers and beta testers, so I speak with less experience on some things...

                      It's good to know and see about what things are on the table for changes/updates. That said, I feel like it'd be good to prioritize the list, and let players know what you're focusing on. An increased developer/gm presence has been asked for on the forums for quite some time. I don't expect that they'd be replying to everything like you have in this thread thus far, but even something like them making threads asking for focused feedback to get at least some interaction would be nice. Example - "We're working on revamping Hades and Mary, here's ideas X and Y we're currently considering changes on..." and getting a feel for the players like that. Many on here would definitely give time to threads like that, and in good detail.

                      Hearing that changes are coming are nice, but even for me who hasn't been around to long, it does feel like you're playing it too carefully and moving slow with changes. I can only imagine how much more frustrating that would feel if I were around as long as your beta testers. Seeing them give feedback and get little to no answer for the two months I've been playing seems rough.

                      RNG, Pace of the Game, and Character Balance are probably my big three concerns, and I think they're a bit more important than trying to push out brand new content with where the game is at. With RNG, I've always felt like players have little to no influence over their builds, because all the skill enhancements are based completely on RNG. I'd be fine with some of the rarer mods having a bit of an RNG element to them, but having no option to control how to use some of the core builds or test builds out due to the way skill mods are on equipment, it leaves so much potential of the characters untapped.

                      With the pace...some characters just feel extremely slow. I wouldn't say any of them are at a very fluid pace quite yet...but I started out as Jerry. Leveling through story mode felt clunky, I was constantly running out of mana, and many of her skills didn't feel like they had the impact they should compared to the mana/cooldown cost. Ara felt similar with the mana. Hades and Audrey felt clunky early on too. Yeah, they get better at a higher level...but that core early game should give a good feel of how a character could play, and you're probably losing new players at that point because it really doesn't feel like a good pace if they don't pick the perfect character. (B, larger due to his mana/health management, was the only character who felt in a good place while leveling to me.) After getting into some of the later content, I'd say all of the characters don't feel very smooth, running through abilities too quickly and then auto-attacking for long periods, running into mana issues, or just having so many skills feel underwhelming...it could be much more fun with some changes to the pace and mana regen. This all ties closely in with character balance too, since they'll go pretty hand in hand.

                      On another point players are mentioning here and there...this currently feels like the worst cash shop I've seen, even in an early stages of game launch. (Granted, some cash shops are really darn price gougey...but as a fair example Elsword has decently meaningful purchases, the costume variety is enough that people feel it worthwhile to sink some money into it or grind to trade for items.) I literally feel compelled to buy nothing from it aside from VIP for the minor buffs and extra draws. The costumes are all bland, and I've very rarely heard of good experiences with the boxes. Nothing really feels worth it.

                      I've found the game fun and would like to stick with it as I feel it has good potential, but up until now it's been really discouraging on the forums, you have many players who really care about the game being a success, and due mostly to slow/weak changes and little information surrounding changes coming up, I've already seen some of those veteran players quit. Will they come back? Time will tell, but to lose strong, vocal players like that early on generally doesn't give people a good feeling on the 'health' of a game. I'm not saying you have to agree with them, reply to everyone, and I wouldn't agree with everything they'd propose either...but the amount of silence for a young game was astounding.

                      Comment


                      • #15
                        so uhh are you the new community manager?

                        anyway in regards to feedback, last month a bunch of threads were being compiled to be sent back to the devs
                        ive browsed through the forums and as far as i can see, im the only person who made a detailed feedback post for Ara
                        i edited it to get it noticed by Yahu but it was ignored.
                        i just want to know why it was ignored, since its the only detailed feedback for a specific character(as far as i can see) and other threads like it were being compiled.
                        if turns out that you guys think its garbage and not worthy of being compiled, then no hard feelings.
                        Last edited by Wraith; 09-21-2016, 11:04 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Wraith
                          Wraith commented
                          Editing a comment
                          seph
                          yahu commented on the threads that were selected, im guessing if he didn't comment on ours they were either ignored, forgotten or they didn't like it and never said anything.

                          i dont mind if they take feedback and trash it as long as its acknowledged and we are told about it, would rather have them seeing our posts than completely ignoring them and not saying anything.
                          Last edited by Wraith; 09-22-2016, 05:38 AM.

                        • Lacrima
                          Lacrima commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Likewise. I'm also very curious as to the direction in which they intend to take balance. What exactly do they consider balanced and why? It's very difficult to understand some of their decisions without first understanding these fundamental axioms, which, unfortunately, have not yet been disclosed.
                          Last edited by Lacrima; 09-22-2016, 08:17 PM.

                        • seph
                          seph commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Oh yeah, exactly. I'd rather hear that my opinion is **** and i should stop providing feedback rather than sacrifice 2-6 hours of my time making a post for someone that ignores me.
                          I'd rather waste my time elsewhere if that's the case...

                          And yeah, what Lacrima said. We are in total darkness when it comes to developer's view on the game and it's direction. Their vision of final product is not clear at all and all that we have right now are mere speculations, at most.
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