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  • A players perspective to a just compensation

    Thread Created: Sunday, January 15th, 2017 ~3AM
    ( ** This thread was created with the current information of what we know at this current juncture. ( Next to nothing.) )
    I think everyone can agree that this was just one huge beta test. It would be unfair to say it wasn't, as the producers and publishers both stated it was a creation of what did work in KR, and took everything out that didn't. Well, what we got at least in my eyes, was... I mean.. Like have you ever put a hot dog in the microwave and come back 5 minutes later and realized you put the hot dog in for too long? No offense to you KoG, but I think there were plenty red flags being thrown everywhere around the forums, and even in game.
    We stressed, Hard over this game to try and come up with the best ideas, the most conducive posts, literally everything we could do to try and get what we wanted out of the team; and for some reason it just felt moot. Sure we were given a, "Yah no problemz matey!! I'll throw that in and send it to the creat0rz.", but after that anything that was suggested felt to us was thrown away, put on a back burner something, completely opposite of what we wanted was then put into the game. We received no input from you guys, saying something along the lines of — "Hey, You know what? I'm a player too. I totally agree, this shouldn't be that way. We'll get right on that and change it." I guess this may just be my personal lack of understanding; but I'm sure at least someone there knows how to open the coding of the game, press ctrl+f and find some sort of value along the lines of diver code, or even damage modifiers for certain skills. Is that not a thing? I just didn't see how we had to wait 4, 6, 8, 10 weeks for a pretty easy change. Sure I can understand, "We had a better idea, but.. seeing at how fast the community died from CBT1 - 2 to release... I don't know man.
    Rambled enough on that, Okay, so here's the thing. Let's talk about that founder's package we were seduced into buying. The amount of misinformation I received from the GMs on this, kills me. I was told, " It's not a recolor, the emblem will be wonder rank, the mount will be wonder rank. The mount isn't a recolor. The outfit will be able to go on what ever character you want.(Specifically, I'm using it on Audrey, I can use it on Jerry too ya? Ya.) " That's just a few. Aside from that, most of us were persuaded to buy it from the pictures, videos, and false advertisement that we received. I was under the impression that it'd be a close to copypasta KR version like you did with Elsword. Then as KR was given more content, we'd follow 1/2/3 months behind. However, the day CBT 1 hit, "Yaman, we decided to completely redo the game. It just didn't appeal to 3 people on the KR forums, so we took everything that actually made the game fun, and redid all of it to make it bad. PS we took out Jerry spin2win." sorry, still t o r n I can't spin2win.

    From my point of view, even with all that going down, CBT 1 needless to say was probably the best experience I ever had, and I will always remember it. Sure, the UI was horrid, and I was still unsure how you could go from taking pictures with the translated UI to that watered down mobile game garbage, but I was still content, as everything just felt smooth. Audrey felt perfectly fine, but it all changed when the CBT2 patch hit. Audrey, gutted. B, swerve. Mary, I'm a cool character with the clunkiest game play in this version :3. UI, still bad. Cbt2, it's like they took all of the suggestions, and feedback—slated it. Gave us the exact same copy of CBT1, gutted, mind you for no reason Audrey, completely redo everything that worked and made it terrible with her, and introduced Mary who was a problem in itself. We gave you feedback, and I'm guessing it's stuff you just either wanted to hear so you knew you weren't going crazy either, or you legitimately thought it was perfectly fine. Shoot me now, please. End my misery.

    So, I'm going to go ahead and call this "Release", Cbt3. Ya, cool. It was a great run, you had your laughs, you priced everything high, you made fun of the characters we had at the beginning with petty changes, we, lol, even played for several months with horrendous mana issues, but let's actually talk about what you're going to do next time in order to legitimately run this game, cause god forbid you of all companies drop this game, and give it to Aeria. I will.. die. Just don't. KoG, let me be real with you for a second, CHANGE THE UI. REDUCE THE PRICES OF YOUR SILLY CASH SHOP. SERIOUSLY, COPY PASTA KR. I think then, we might actually have a chance with Trump being our next president. ( Political joke, incoming triggered alerts. Come on, admit it.. you smiled. At least... a little? ) All forbidden topics aside, I want this game to be successful. I honestly do. I love it, however I don't love it enough to torture myself over it every time you ignore someones post pertaining to make us Heros instead of Zeros. The only other thing I can say is please.. please increase your amount of communication with us. We're all passionate, and we all want this game to succeed.



    So. Let's get to the nitty gritty; compensation for extended cbt3.
    I think it's outright fair, that you instantly refund all of the founder packs, give them the same benefits when we have our fresh start in 2018. Wipe it all. Keep the player data for those who reserved their names. Come up with actual costumes, titles, and mounts that aren't recolored processed garbage, yes with the ability to use on other characters. Hello? I'm a founder. I want my title on all of my characters. It's 2017, account wide titles/achievements should just be a thing. KChing spent in this entirety of CBT3 is refunded, or if you don't like that.. Which you probably don't. You give us the amount we spent, to K-ching. Those who didn't spend any should be given at the very least a free $20 just for playing your extended beta test numero tres, that way we can either spend it on Elsword, or save it for when the game comes out.
    This is fair on many levels. Integrity being one. Say you guys don't want to do this anymore. Say you drop the game before 2018. That just leaves us players shafted, and also extremely mad. We invested into you, and we got literally ZERO out of HERO. -or- Say you go through with your plans, and... I hope to my gracious deity that you bring the fresh new exciting KR version over here with the pristine UI. I wouldn't mind starting over, and having all that KChing, ready to spend on your horrible gacha boxes. All I know is; I'm sure the community feels the same way. We want a thick compensation for putting up with this poor quality private server. I'm only mad because I cared. I free this post to the wrath of the community, GO. Bring forth many responses, and feelings of how we feel!
    FRIENDSHIP!
    s/o to riverclub. Ily memes.
    #FinalRant Pce Pce boyz.
    Last edited by Drunk; 01-15-2017, 09:50 AM.

  • #2
    Agreed. Wouldn't mind a fresh start, but would certainly be nice to have some sort of compensation for the insanely false advertised founder's packs, and any money spent on K-Ching (will just have to wait and see, I guess).

    To add: As well as better communication between the staff and the players, there really needs to be better staff-to-staff communication, as this is how so much misinformation spreads (like with the founder's packs).

    So much more that I can say, but I'm sure most of it has already been iterated by the community throughout these past months. +1 though

    Edit: The shear amount of abusable bugs was also a bit demotivating, hopefully they take this opportunity to test thoroughly. And, if there are any major bugs with the new release, hopefully fix in a far more timely manner.
    Last edited by Light; 01-15-2017, 01:54 AM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Drunk View Post
      PS we took out Jerry spin2win."


      (This tip is still ingame)

      However, you're right with everything. Personally I'd love if KoG gets out Founder Packs again, for those who didn't buy them yet.
      I missed alot of cool stuff (I had to buy ingame then ;_; ), and I'd like to get them too.

      Comment


      • #4
        A fresh start with the original KR Herowarz with full compensation back would get me to try the game again. At one point I really liked this game because I saw lots of potential in it but unfortunately KOG and the developers never listen to the feedback they were given.

        Transparency is severely lacking and it shows. It would be very nice if we could get a roadmap or some sort of dev blog to keep the community informed on what will happen to the game.

        Comment


        • #5
          (I think this thread is gonna be moved to the suggestions and feedback section, so look there if you see this thread missing)

          I'm gonna focus on the things that I can say for sure and look over a few other issues that are, to me, very gray such as character skills/damage/fluidity of gameplay because parts of the game don't even seem like they were prepared to handle what some heroes do at that point. (ex: When you fight the Dr. Hydro boss as you first go through story and are faced with his shield, the game tells you to fight him with the exploding drone as attacking him head on will do little to no damage, but some characters do enough damage to treat his shield like it doesn't exist and they just blow him up, ruining immersion and a potential boss mechanic.

          -Compensation

          Yeah, everyone knows the game has had it's share of issues, but the nail here is that we didn't reach this conclusion to temporarily suspend service so they could work on the game for an extended period of time. This announcement was given in such a way that you can clearly see there were originally no set plans of closing at this specific point in time until now, else Christmas and New Years sales would have been reconsidered. Because service has gone on 6 months and the type of game this is, it can't really be considered the player's fault in investing in the game as they would be investing in an extended MMO experience. Since this situation is the way it is, I think players should receive not a cash refund, but a K-Ching value equal to their total purchases in each player's entire transaction history all the way back to founder's packs to be used in either Herowarz' re-release or Elsword. And needless to say, compensations should be tightly monitored so that no one has a problem redeeming their K-Ching. This is, of course, assuming the entire game will be hard reset and nothing will be kept from the current version, so keep that in mind until we get word of what the Herowarz team decides will be carried over after the break. I'll make note, however, that the announcement on what will carry over after the hiatus should be VERY clear and thorough and maybe include a forum post so players can ask any questions they may have, as some past posts such as the founder's pack post, were EXTREMELY unclear about things such as what exactly we were getting and what we could do with said items.

          Just make sure that ALL the staff that we communicate with is crystal clear on topics and announcements like this so that there is no misunderstanding when a player in-game or in the forums asks a question. I still remember rereading that unclear founder's pack announcement several times and having questions before buying a founder's pack and then being confused about the limitations of the items we were promised once I opened the box.

          __________________________________________Tangent__________________________________________________ _____

          -Costumes/Equipables/etc

          A bit off topic, but since the topic of cash item prices was mentioned, I'll talk about it. These were kind of weird for me as they didn't really follow the guidelines the game sets up as seen with equipment. Ranks go:common, uncommon, rare, epic, wonder. Costumes had uncommon and rare while emblems had uncommon, rare, epic, and wonder. They're inconsistent. This may seem unimportant, but when you get into the game and say, try to break down costumes to try and get others, the costume values are inconsistent and don't actually reflect the values of said items, which brings me to my next point about the value of equipable items.

          Items in the Costume tab of your character info should be purely cosmetic and not affect gameplay in any other way. You buy a costume to "show off", but here we have a system where they actually affect stats and costumes that you purchase with real money that actually lose value because they have bad stats/mods, which leads to another set of RNG nightmare. It's clear there are character balancing issues, so I don't feel that adding stats and mods to items that are meant to be cosmetic helps the issue by adding more variables to the equation. However, this includes mounts and is only averted in some cases of emblems. Emblems have are somewhat of a gray area because they give somewhat unique, but reasonable stats and give no mods. the problem is that they are inconsistent in how they are bound, which is how I'll get my post back on topic.

          -Soul/Account Binding/Locker Storage Available

          This is one of the biggest reasons I feel Cash Shop items are not worth the prices that are given in the store. For cosmetics, we should be able to equip and exchange them with any other character on our accounts at any time, however many times we want for no cost as long as sizes match. I think the problem here was that costumes give stats, so binding them was an attempt to balance them, but this leads to another loss of value for these items because equipping them functions a lot like buying a new car. (If you buy a brand new car, the instant you drive it off the lot, it loses value because it is now a used car.) They get a mod that affects their in-game value, rare ones get bound which affects their value (cuz you gotta jump through loops and pay more $ to repackage them), and they get stats that affects their value. FOR EACH PIECE. Adding the fact that these variables are assigned by RNG. But another problem with binding is the inconsistency. I'll use emblems as an example. The CBT emblems are universal on one account: locker storage, no binding, no limitations. Awesome. Facebook emblem: SOUNDS universal, LOOKS universal, locker storage available, bound to the first hero you equip it on....huh? The only emblems I can see being this way are the initial character release level-grind emblems as they relate to a single character and can actually make sense to bind. No idea about the newer emblems though. Similar issue with titles: All are soul-bound to characters, but some don't have locker storage available when you get them from the mail=bound. That and the fact that some seem universal, but aren't, but titles seem more undefined than other equipables so I'll leave it at that since it's kind of difficult to think of how to handle them. I have no problems with there being universal AND unique equipables or even costumes that are bound to unique heroes, but they need to be handled in a way that consistently follows a set of patterns so everything doesn't seem random.

          Pandora' Boxes just need to be re-imagined in terms of what they should give at what tier, but I don't think there are enough options available right now to talk about what they should give.

          All this is the type of stuff that I wanna talk about before I even think about prices.
          __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___


          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Elijah View Post
            - What is happening to my account name, characters, and all of my accomplishments that I have made in the game?
            We will be making another announcement at a later date with more information about existing HeroWarz Characters, Inventory, Team Names and Accomplishments.
            When is later? "Early next week" ?? https://www.facebook.com/events/1166...tab=discussion

            Comment


            • #7
              welp, thats why i like to try a game a bit before diving in and spending,
              good luck to all the founders who got cucked, hopefully that $ will come back
              if they listen to this thread kek

              Comment


              • #8
                Err... what?

                As someone who has spent close to or more than 100$ on this game in the past few months: no.

                It isn't fair for KoG to refund founders packs. Likewise, it isn't fair to give you founders pack benefits after being refunded. And you want KoG to also refund any KChing bought during Herowarz's uptime? And you want 20$ on top of it all?

                How entitled can you be? Herowarz doesn't owe you jack. You chose to spend your money on this game that never really "took off" in the first place, as did I, and many others. You took a risk, and it didn't pay off; that's not on Herowarz, that's on you.

                And "ZERO out of HERO"? Surely, you jest. Surely, months of playing Herowarz isn't "zero". Surely, leveling hero after hero isn't "zero". Where are you getting this "zero" from? Literally nowhere.

                Also, let me back up a bit. Nothing is fair about you asking for a refund and free money. It's the opposite of fair. Unless KoG held you at gunpoint and demanded you gamble your money on Herowarz, you have no right to complain about the money you (willingly) spent on Herowarz. It's absolutely absurd of you to ask this of KoG.

                When people invest in companies, and they lose money, that's it. They don't get to ask for refunds, undos, or rewinds. They have to suffer the consequences of the choices they made.

                By the way, asking for a refund is a surefire way to make sure Herowarz never reboots.

                Don't be unreasonable.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Crybaby View Post
                  Err... what?

                  As someone who has spent close to or more than 100$ on this game in the past few months: no.

                  It isn't fair for KoG to refund founders packs. Likewise, it isn't fair to give you founders pack benefits after being refunded. And you want KoG to also refund any KChing bought during Herowarz's uptime? And you want 20$ on top of it all?

                  How entitled can you be? Herowarz doesn't owe you jack. You chose to spend your money on this game that never really "took off" in the first place, as did I, and many others. You took a risk, and it didn't pay off; that's not on Herowarz, that's on you.

                  And "ZERO out of HERO"? Surely, you jest. Surely, months of playing Herowarz isn't "zero". Surely, leveling hero after hero isn't "zero". Where are you getting this "zero" from? Literally nowhere.

                  Also, let me back up a bit. Nothing is fair about you asking for a refund and free money. It's the opposite of fair. Unless KoG held you at gunpoint and demanded you gamble your money on Herowarz, you have no right to complain about the money you (willingly) spent on Herowarz. It's absolutely absurd of you to ask this of KoG.

                  When people invest in companies, and they lose money, that's it. They don't get to ask for refunds, undos, or rewinds. They have to suffer the consequences of the choices they made.

                  By the way, asking for a refund is a surefire way to make sure Herowarz never reboots.

                  Don't be unreasonable.
                  What in tarnation?
                  You're something else. $100? What a small, cute amount. It's perfectly fair for them to refund founder packs, someone new to the game, such as yourself wouldn't understa—comprehend. Founder pack prices wouldn't be refunded, the packs themselves would be refunded, IF the game were to be clean slated, and started from fresh, obviously that's what they'd do considering what they are doing now.

                  Unfortunately, Yes, and no. That is our fault, but not in the entirety you speak of. If you actually scratched the surface with the amount of money I've spent on just Elsword alone and this game company, you would understand why I said what I said. KoG as a company is swimming in gucci when it comes to money. Welcome to KoG. Try a couple years of Herowarz. I've played quite some time on the KR servers, so I do know what I'm talking about when it comes to this game, and what it should actually be. So yes, our Heroes are Zeros. It's not fair for me to ask for a refund? Are you a joke? Am I on a TV show right now? Pranked.. right? That's what they call it, right? Come back in a couple years when you've matured a little bit and actually know what I'm saying. I don't need someone unstable trying to derail a serious thread, if you don't have anything valuable to say, please leave.
                  If the game is wiped, and your cute $100 isn't refunded, you wouldn't be affected as much as someone like me, or Peachy. Of course, that goes without saying as you don't even know who we are, Lol.

                  You act as if kching has a backer. It's literally electronically generated and has no value what so ever, so there is no way they would go bankrupt for giving our kching back.
                  Thanks for trying though.
                  Last edited by Drunk; 01-17-2017, 08:52 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Drunk View Post
                    What in tarnation?
                    Golly gee, could you be any more condescending? You're something else.

                    "$100? What a small, cute amount."
                    The amount of money doesn't matter. You completely misunderstood my point, or are purposely misinterpreting it, apparently.

                    "If you actually scratched the surface with the amount of money I've spent on just Elsword alone and this game company, you would understand why I said what I said."
                    "If the game is wiped, and your cute $100 isn't refunded, you wouldn't be affected as much as someone like me, or Peachy. Of course, that goes without saying as you don't even know who we are, Lol."

                    I've spent thousands of dollars on Mabinogi and Vindictus, but if one, or both, went offline, I wouldn't cry to the devs and demand a refund, because "b-b-but my money! :^( I've been here so long and supported you and you're closing your doors? REFUND! :^(" Which, ya'know, is exactly what you're doing, except you're being 10x more unreasonable with your demands.

                    "Try a couple years of Herowarz"
                    Contrary to popular belief, one does not need to spend years playing a single game to have common sense.

                    "It's not fair for me to ask for a refund? Are you a joke? Am I on a TV show right now? Pranked.. right? That's what they call it, right? Come back in a couple years when you've matured a little bit and actually know what I'm saying. I don't need someone unstable trying to derail a serious thread, if you don't have anything valuable to say, please leave."
                    Holy moly. Do you have nothing better to bring to the table other than ad hominem and strawman? Do you react this way to anyone that has a different opinion than you? Hey, my dude, having an opinion that is different from yours doesn't make me unstable, immature, or incapable of comprehending the nonsensical word-vomit you've presented as an argument.

                    "You act as if kching has a backer. It's literally electronically generated and has no value what so ever, so there is no way they would go bankrupt for giving our kching back."
                    That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. That's like saying the government can just print dollar bills whenever they want with no consequences whatsoever; newsflash, that isn't how currency works. KoG would be LOSING money. No business would profit in any way from giving out for free what makes them money, ESPECIALLY on a free to play game.

                    And just for future reference, I don't need to have played a game for years and years to understand how business works. I don't need to spend hundreds of dollars on a game to understand that what you're asking is absurd.

                    The only way I can see you being refunded in any way, would be if Herowarz was falsely advertised. From what I saw on Youtube and their homepage, nothing was falsely advertised.

                    Also, I think you should know the purpose behind founders packs, because... well... you don't. When you buy a founders pack, no matter what the tier, you are buying it to help develop the game. That's the purpose of founders packs; everything that comes with a founders pack is just an added bonus. You aren't actually paying for those things, those are being given to you when you support the game by buying a founders pack. That's why it's called a founders pack. You help found it by buying one. It's like charity lol, you just get a little something in return.

                    I bought the highest tier founders packs for Black Desert Online, Blade and Soul, Tera, and Revelation Online. Out of those 4, I regret buying 3. I kick myself in the stomach every time I think about how I jumped the gun and spent $80+ each on founders packs for those 3 games. But buying those founders packs was a decision I made and now I have to live with it.


                    Yeah, it sucks that you wasted your money on a game you backed, but that's life. That's gambling.

                    BTW, if you ever want anyone to take you even remotely seriously, you should maybe consider not being such a condescending brat when you respond to someone who disagrees with you. I don't take kindly to being talked down to just because I'm not a ~Herowarz Veteran~. Don't be rude.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I feel you're just misunderstanding a lot of what I said.
                      This isn't a thread about getting a refund because the game is going down. This is about getting a refund for the things we've received from our kching purchases so we can rebuy them when the game is re-released. Why it requires this amount of belittling is beyond me. More than likely with the re-release it'll be a fresh start. You get that right? Yes, if they plan on making a new founders pack I'll gladly buy it. As long as it isn't our same remade version, that wasn't originally advertised.
                      Everything else that was said was just you attacking me on baseless accusations, therefore moot.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Drunk View Post
                        I feel you're just misunderstanding a lot of what I said.
                        This isn't a thread about getting a refund because the game is going down. This is about getting a refund for the things we've received from our kching purchases so we can rebuy them when the game is re-released. Why it requires this amount of belittling is beyond me. More than likely with the re-release it'll be a fresh start. You get that right? Yes, if they plan on making a new founders pack I'll gladly buy it. As long as it isn't our same remade version, that wasn't originally advertised.
                        Everything else that was said was just you attacking me on baseless accusations, therefore moot.
                        Okay, that isn't what your OP says at all.

                        Originally posted by Drunk View Post
                        So. Let's get to the nitty gritty; compensation for extended cbt3.
                        I think it's outright fair, that you instantly refund all of the founder packs, give them the same benefits when we have our fresh start in 2018. Wipe it all. Keep the player data for those who reserved their names. Come up with actual costumes, titles, and mounts that aren't recolored processed garbage, yes with the ability to use on other characters. Hello? I'm a founder. I want my title on all of my characters. It's 2017, account wide titles/achievements should just be a thing. KChing spent in this entirety of CBT3 is refunded, or if you don't like that.. Which you probably don't. You give us the amount we spent, to K-ching. Those who didn't spend any should be given at the very least a free $20 just for playing your extended beta test numero tres, that way we can either spend it on Elsword, or save it for when the game comes out.
                        I do see where you said: "Which you probably don't. You give us the amount we spent, to K-ching." Which I don't think is as unreasonable as the rest of your demands.


                        Originally posted by Drunk View Post
                        Everything else that was said was just you attacking me on baseless accusations, therefore moot.
                        Originally posted by Drunk View Post
                        Why it requires this amount of belittling is beyond me.
                        Are you out of your mind? I posted a well constructed disagreement (which you asked for, by the way.) and you responded in pure hostility. Let me break down exactly what you said to me since you're so intent on playing the victim when you're actually the bully.

                        Originally posted by Drunk View Post
                        What in tarnation?
                        You're something else. $100? What a small, cute amount. It's perfectly fair for them to refund founder packs, someone new to the game, such as yourself wouldn't understa—comprehend. Founder pack prices wouldn't be refunded, the packs themselves would be refunded, IF the game were to be clean slated, and started from fresh, obviously that's what they'd do considering what they are doing now.

                        Unfortunately, Yes, and no. That is our fault, but not in the entirety you speak of. If you actually scratched the surface with the amount of money I've spent on just Elsword alone and this game company, you would understand why I said what I said. KoG as a company is swimming in gucci when it comes to money. Welcome to KoG. Try a couple years of Herowarz. I've played quite some time on the KR servers, so I do know what I'm talking about when it comes to this game, and what it should actually be. So yes, our Heroes are Zeros. It's not fair for me to ask for a refund? Are you a joke? Am I on a TV show right now? Pranked.. right? That's what they call it, right?
                        Come back in a couple years when you've matured a little bit and actually know what I'm saying. I don't need someone unstable trying to derail a serious thread, if you don't have anything valuable to say, please leave.
                        If the game is wiped, and your cute $100 isn't refunded, you wouldn't be affected as much as someone like me, or Peachy. Of course, that goes without saying as you don't even know who we are, Lol.

                        You act as if kching has a backer. It's literally electronically generated and has no value what so ever, so there is no way they would go bankrupt for giving our kching back.

                        Thanks for trying though.


                        You belittled me from the get-go and you treated me like a lesser being, like my opinion means jack all, like I'm an immature child, like I'm not educated in the least, like I'm UNSTABLE(???), all because I haven't been on HWZ as long as YOU. I didn't derail anything. I gave you feedback on your OP, WHICH YOU ASKED FOR.

                        And I bloody quote:
                        Originally posted by Drunk View Post
                        "I free this post to the wrath of the community, GO. Bring forth many responses, and feelings of how we feel!"
                        YOU said this. I said how I feel in my initial post. I wrote down my feelings, my opinion, then you responded to me in vitriol. The minute I called you out on your sour attitude, you turned around and tried to make me the bad guy, saying I belittled you? Saying I attacked you? Who was it that called me unstable? Who was it that called me immature? Who was it that implied I can't comprehend what you say? You did. You attacked me. And you know what? It's a typical bully tactic to put the blame on the victim.

                        I'm out. I didn't post my opinion (that you asked for) to be belittled, demeaned, and treated like absolute garbage. God forbid I try to have a civil disagreement with literally anyone on the internet. Ad hominem and strawman aren't valid counter-arguments.

                        If you didn't want people to disagree with you, you should have said so in your op. Bye, Felicia.

                        Comment


                        • Drunk
                          Drunk commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Incredible.

                      • #13
                        Originally posted by Crybaby View Post

                        The only way I can see you being refunded in any way, would be if Herowarz was falsely advertised. From what I saw on Youtube and their homepage, nothing was falsely advertised.
                        Ugh, founder packs were falsely advertised, or well, the game was anyway. People bought founders for the KR translated version but then they wiped it and now they changed the whole game which is the game now. People bought Founders packs (Including me) and were, in a way, betrayed. They were promised something that was quickly changed. So yes, they falsely advertised in a way. Also, it was character bound and not account bound, this was not properly specified by Kog.
                        Also, if you're posting your opinion and such, of course you're going to get backlash, facts man, facts. Adding small remarks between sentences doesn't persuade the one you're against either, insulting will never get the other to take you seriously, same goes for you Drunk, ;D Same goes for anyone on the internet really :v(

                        Comment


                        • Drunk
                          Drunk commented
                          Editing a comment
                          Thank you Spiral. I couldn't agree more.

                        • Crybaby
                          Crybaby commented
                          Editing a comment
                          I see. Then I stand corrected when I said nothing was falsely advertised, but let me reiterate: Founders packs are literally just charity to help move the game along.

                          Also, I expected OP and others to (possibly) disagree with me. But disagreement =/= strawman and ad hominem, which is all that OP responded to me with. So, yeah, when someone responds to me like I'm lesser than them, because 'reasons', you better believe I'm going to get defensive. And what 'small remarks'?
                          Last edited by Crybaby; 01-18-2017, 03:46 PM.

                        • DrinkingBleach
                          DrinkingBleach commented
                          Editing a comment
                          'Don't be unreasonable.' 'How entitled can you be?' 'Where are you getting this "zero" from? Literally nowhere.' 'Err... what? '
                          And little sentences in italics. These seem a little rude and not needed in the overall argument. And this was from your op btw. You can find more in your and Drunk's spat. I'm not starting an argument with you. If you want proof then I'll give it to you.
                          Also those founder packs, no matter what they were for, a gamble or not still need to be refunded in some way. Look @ Spiral's comment for reasons why. We didn't know that once we got the founder packs in the mail that they'll instantly open and size bind to the character opening the mail, Kog never said that it would. No matter what you believe, Kog did a bad job handling this game and there should be some form of refund. They're not obliged to but morally it's the good thing to do.
                          Crybaby
                          Last edited by DrinkingBleach; 01-21-2017, 01:32 PM.

                      • #14
                        I agree with most of what you said about the founder issue. When I receive my founder package it was a huge red flag for me because it wasn't accurate with what the GM have personally told me when I asked. The fact that certain things were not account bound just made no sense in a 2015+ game.

                        I don't mind that they were ambitious and tried to re-do the whole game. I think making big changes is fine in close beta so I don't really count that as false advertising. My problem was that this whole release felt rushed. What was the point of releasing the game at all at it's current state? I remember asking them why they were releasing the game so early and one of the GM answered that they wanted to release before anime expo. Seriously?

                        This game felt so unique but you could tell that it was going to die if the game continued at it's current state. I tried to make threads telling people that certain things need to change but any criticism I post or talk about get mocked by the small elitism percentage in this community.

                        "This game shouldn't be any easier"
                        "If you want everything handed to you go play another game"
                        "Why don't you just trust that the developers know what they are doing and give it time (welp now the game is dead)

                        But unfortunately that was never my point. There was a huge flaw with how the game flows that it felt bad for the player experience. Until they smooth out the early to mid game...this game will never be popular. I still check on this game from time to time hoping for a big change. Maybe after this pause this game can potentially be great again(make herowarz great again)

                        I also hope the loyal players get properly compensated for this mess. I never seen a community so loyal over a fail release and a dying game.

                        Comment


                        • #15
                          Originally posted by King View Post
                          I don't mind that they were ambitious and tried to re-do the whole game. I think making big changes is fine in close beta so I don't really count that as false advertising.
                          I'm gonna try to use an example to clear up what people are talking about when you hear them saying the game was falsely advertised, for you and anyone else who might be confused. This will be especially be more meaningful if you've gotten to endgame and can understand the subtle implications that can be derived from the differences between what was advertised and what we have in our version. I'm going to try to be as unbiased as possible and speak from the point of view of someone that didn't even know about the KR version until after release.

                          Here is one of the teasers made for the game before the first closed beta test on the official HW youtube channel:

                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wk_0ul3aIe8&t=120s

                          Before I start explaining why the community reacted the way it did, I'm gonna quote an excerpt from the video description:

                          "It is important to remember that the game is still in the beta stage of development for our release. Not all of the localization has been added into the game, and we are still working closely with the developers to give HeroWarz the immersive feel and polish it justly deserves. Everything you see here is subject to change."

                          I understand that this was show even before CBT and changes were expected to be made, but the important thing here is: This is not an advertisement of our game, this is an advertisement of the KR version of the game that (to those who knew about the game beforehand) implied that they were releasing a pure English-translated version of the game. They advertised levels from the version we wouldn't be playing. Now, if you watched the whole video, you'd notice that you've actually played this mission before. From the story dialogue to the rescuing of kids from the mafia, it all seems familiar. But again, you're supposed too advertise what you're selling, so when people invested in the game to find things that were advertised or implied missing or totally altered, they got very..."passionate", hot-blooded, whatever you wanna call it and led to the almost hostile forum environment for the first few months of release. The thing is, some ads were saying that the entire game was being changed, but others took content from the KR version and implied a pure translation. Either way, if something was advertised or implied anywhere in them, but not delivered...well, you get the idea. Even the fishing teasers!

                          If a new player hopped into the game after seeing these teasers, here's what they'd say:

                          - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gDfHbb57xE

                          "Where is this?! This place doesn't exist!"

                          - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EzYKw6DcT0

                          "We can fish in the Serengeti?! Where? I can't find it!"

                          I won't go into the part about your suggestions as I have my standpoints on all of them and because they derail a bit too far from the current topic, but I understand your concern. This, and my other comments were just to inform anyone who is still confused about the topic of false advertising so we can all be on the same page.

                          But I will say that I'd rather us not forget the things that happened, but learn from them and move on. Yes, this did happen, but the important thing is that they take this in stride and become more careful and thorough with their future announcements/advertisements/teasers. (And I hope this is just in my mind, but sometimes I almost get the feeling that they're scared to announce or tease some things because of these past occurrences. I hope I'm wrong, but if not, I hope they can work things out.)

                          Last edited by Spiral; 01-21-2017, 09:49 AM.

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                          • Spiral
                            Spiral commented
                            Editing a comment
                            Bleach being kind, calm, and reasonable?! (Screams in a British accent: ) You're messing with the natural order!

                          • DrinkingBleach
                            DrinkingBleach commented
                            Editing a comment
                            Shut up trash, garbage, scum.
                            Going to eat my chips that have too much salt on it aggressively now.
                            Also, nice 69th post dweeb.
                            Last edited by DrinkingBleach; 01-21-2017, 11:59 AM.

                          • Spiral
                            Spiral commented
                            Editing a comment
                            "And thus peace was returned throughout the land; as the natural balance had been restored."
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